Guerra de IV generacion

[Currobena]

De cómo empiezan muchas guerras:

What Is False Flag Terror? “False flag terrorism” is defined as a government attacking its own people, then blaming others in order to justify going to war against the people it blames. Or as Wikipedia defines it:
 <blockquote>False flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is, flying the flag of a country other than one’s own. False flag operations are not limited to war and counter-insurgency operations, and have been used in peace-time; for example, during Italy’s strategy of tension.</blockquote> The term comes from the old days of wooden ships, when one ship would hang the flag of its enemy before attacking another ship in its own navy. Because the enemy’s flag, instead of the flag of the real country of the attacking ship, was hung, it was called a “false flag” attack.
Indeed, this concept is so well-accepted that rules of engagement for naval, air and land warfare all prohibit false flag attacks.
 Leaders Throughout History Have Acknowledged False Flags Leaders throughout history have acknowledged the danger of false flags:
 <blockquote>“This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.”
 - Plato
“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.”
 - U.S. President James Madison
“Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death”.
 - Adolph Hitler
“Why of course the people don’t want war … But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship … Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
 - Hermann Goering, Nazi leader.
“The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened”.
 - Josef Stalin</blockquote> Governments from Around the World ADMIT that they Carry Out False Flag Terror But don’t take our word for it.
Governments from around the world admit they carry out false flag terror:
 

• A major with the Nazi SS admitted at the Nuremberg trials that – under orders from the chief of the Gestapo – he and some other Nazi operatives faked attacks on their own people and resources which they blamed on the Poles, to justify the invasion of Poland. Nazi general Franz Halder also testified at the Nuremberg trials that Nazi leader Hermann Goering admitted to setting fire to the German parliament building, and then falsely blaming the communists for the arson

• The CIA admits that it hired Iranians in the 1950′s to pose as Communists and stage bombings in Iran in order to turn the country against its democratically-elected prime minister

• Israel admits that an Israeli terrorist cell operating in Egypt planted bombs in several buildings, including U.S. diplomatic facilities, then left behind “evidence” implicating the Arabs as the culprits (one of the bombs detonated prematurely, allowing the Egyptians to identify the bombers, and several of the Israelis later confessed) (and see this and this)

• The former Italian Prime Minister, an Italian judge, and the former head of Italian counterintelligence admit that NATO, with the help of the Pentagon and CIA, carried out terror bombings in Italy and other European countries in the 1950s and blamed the communists, in order to rally people’s support for their governments in Europe in their fight against communism. As one participant in this formerly-secret program stated: “You had to attack civilians, people, women, children, innocent people, unknown people far removed from any political game. The reason was quite simple. They were supposed to force these people, the Italian public, to turn to the state to ask for greater security” (and see this)(Italy and other European countries subject to the terror campaign had joined NATO before the bombings occurred). And watch this BBC special
   

• As admitted by the U.S. government, recently declassified documents show that in the 1960′s, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on a plan to blow up AMERICAN airplanes (using an elaborate plan involving the switching of airplanes), and also to commit terrorist acts on American soil, and then to blame it on the Cubans in order to justify an invasion of Cuba. See the following ABC news report; the official documents; and watch this interview with the former Washington Investigative Producer for ABC’s World News Tonight with Peter Jennings.

• 2 years before, American Senator George Smathers had suggested that the U.S. make “a false attack made on Guantanamo Bay which would give us the excuse of actually fomenting a fight which would then give us the excuse to go in and [overthrow Castro]“.

• And Official State Department documents show that – only nine months before the Joint Chiefs of Staff plan was proposed – the head of the Joint Chiefs and other high-level officials discussed blowing up a consulate in the Dominican Republic in order to justify an invasion of that country. The 3 plans were not carried out, but they were all discussed as serious proposals

• The South African Truth and Reconciliation Council found that, in 1989, the Civil Cooperation Bureau (a covert branch of the South African Defense Force) approached an explosives expert and asked him “to participate in an operation aimed at discrediting the ANC [the African National Congress] by bombing the police vehicle of the investigating officer into the murder incident”, thus framing the ANC for the bombing

• An Algerian diplomat and several officers in the Algerian army admit that, in the 1990s, the Algerian army frequently massacred Algerian civilians and then blamed Islamic militants for the killings (and see this video; and Agence France-Presse, 9/27/2002, French Court Dismisses Algerian Defamation Suit Against Author)

• According to the Washington Post, Indonesian police admit that the Indonesian military killed American teachers in Papua in 2002 and blamed the murders on a Papuan separatist group in order to get that group listed as a terrorist organization.

• The well-respected former Indonesian president also admits that the government probably had a role in the Bali bombings

• As reported by BBC, the New York Times, and Associated Press, Macedonian officials admit that the government murdered 7 innocent immigrants in cold blood and pretended that they were Al Qaeda soldiers attempting to assassinate Macedonian police, in order to join the “war on terror”.

• Although the FBI now admits that the 2001 anthrax attacks were carried out by one or more U.S. government scientists, a senior FBI official says that the FBI was actually told to blame the Anthrax attacks on Al Qaeda by White House officials  (remember what the anthrax letters looked like).  Government officials also confirm that the white House tried to link the anthrax to Iraq as a justification for regime change in that country

• Former Department of Justice lawyer John Yoo suggested in 2005 that the US should go on the offensive against al-Qaeda, having “our intelligence agencies create a false terrorist organization. It could have its own websites, recruitment centers, training camps, and fundraising operations. It could launch fake terrorist operations and claim credit for real terrorist strikes, helping to sow confusion within al-Qaeda’s ranks, causing operatives to doubt others’ identities and to question the validity of communications.”

• United Press International reported in June 2005:
   <blockquote> <blockquote>U.S. intelligence officers are reporting that some of the insurgents in Iraq are using recent-model Beretta 92 pistols, but the pistols seem to have had their serial numbers erased. The numbers do not appear to have been physically removed; the pistols seem to have come off a production line without any serial numbers. Analysts suggest the lack of serial numbers indicates that the weapons were intended for intelligence operations or terrorist cells with substantial government backing. Analysts speculate that these guns are probably from either Mossad or the CIA. Analysts speculate that agent provocateurs may be using the untraceable weapons even as U.S. authorities use insurgent attacks against civilians as evidence of the illegitimacy of the resistance.</blockquote> </blockquote>

• Quebec police admitted that, in 2007, thugs carrying rocks to a peaceful protest were actually undercover Quebec police officers

• At the G20 protests in London in 2009, a British member of parliament saw plain clothes police officers attempting to incite the crowd to violence

• A Colombian army colonel has admitted that his unit murdered 57 civilians, then dressed them in uniforms and claimed they were rebels killed in combat

• U.S. soldiers have admitted that if they kill innocent Iraqis and Afghanis, they then “drop” automatic weapons near their body so they can pretend they were militants

An Important CURRENT Threat If we do not learn our history, we are doomed to repeat it.  But if people learn about false flags, they will lose their effectiveness.
This is not “old news”.
False flags to start new wars are a current threat both in Syria and in Iran:
 

• Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski (who helped to create Al Qaeda to fight the soviets in Afghanistan) told the Senate that a terrorist act might be carried out in the U.S. and falsely blamed on Iran to justify war against that nation.

• Daniel Ellsberg – the famous Pentagon Papers whistleblower – said “if there is another terror attack, “I believe the president will get what he wants”, which includes war with Iran

• Robert David Steele – a 20-year Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer, the second-ranking civilian in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence, and former CIA clandestine services case officer – says that  elements within the U.S. government are trying to carry out a false flag operation and blame it on Iran

• Former high-level CIA officer Michael Scheuer – who was the head of the CIA unit tasked with capturing Bin Laden – says that Israel or Saudi Arabia could be setting up Iran as a way to foment war

• Ron Paul has warned of a “Gulf of Tonkin type incident” in Iran

• Pulitzer-prize winning investigative reporter Seymour Hersh says many ideas have been proposed for provoking a war, including building boats that look like Iranian boats, and then putting Navy Seals on them to “start a shoot-up”

• The highly influential Brookings Institution wrote a report in 2009 called “Which Path to Persia?” which states (pages 84-85):

<blockquote> <blockquote>It would be far more preferable if the United States could cite an Iranian provocation as justification for the airstrikes before launching them. Clearly, the more outrageous, the more deadly, and the more unprovoked the Iranian action, the better off the United States would be.Of course, it would be very difficult for the United States to goad Iran into such a provocation without the rest of the world recognizing this game, which would then undermine it. (One method that would have some possibility of success would be to ratchet up covert regime change efforts in the hope that Tehran would retaliate overtly, or even semi-overtly, which could then be portrayed as an unprovoked act of Iranian aggression.)</blockquote> </blockquote>

• A former member of the British Parliament stated that “there is a very real danger” that the American government will stage a false flag terror attack in order to justify war against Iran

• A number of very high-level former intelligence officers – including several that personally briefed presidents every day on matters of national security – stated that better communications between the U.S. and Iran were needed to “reduce the danger of … covert, false-flag attack”

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/09/false-flag-2.html

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_de_bandera_falsa

[dmar]

De cómo empiezan muchas guerras:

What Is False Flag Terror? “False flag terrorism” is defined as a government attacking its own people, then blaming others in order to justify going to war against the people it blames. Or as Wikipedia defines it:
 <blockquote>False flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is, flying the flag of a country other than one’s own. False flag operations are not limited to war and counter-insurgency operations, and have been used in peace-time; for example, during Italy’s strategy of tension.</blockquote> The term comes from the old days of wooden ships, when one ship would hang the flag of its enemy before attacking another ship in its own navy. Because the enemy’s flag, instead of the flag of the real country of the attacking ship, was hung, it was called a “false flag” attack.
Indeed, this concept is so well-accepted that rules of engagement for naval, air and land warfare all prohibit false flag attacks.

Pero eso no es guerra de IV generación... a estas alturas es un turco bastante viejo.

[Karunel]

Lo veo un análisis un poco injusto porque se centra tan sólo en los aspectos comerciales de la demanda de monedas... No creo que en Japón, por ejemplo, vean tan bien que todo el mundo tenga prisa por quitarse sus yenes de encima y los venda sin importar el precio.

No sé, vamos, no es por ser fan pero "3 kind of lies"...

[dmar]

Desde Shanghai con amor: la ciberguerra ya está aquí.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/19/technology/chinas-army-is-seen-as-tied-to-hacking-against-us.html?ref=world&_r=0

On the outskirts of Shanghai, in a run-down neighborhood dominated by a 12-story white office tower, sits a People’s Liberation Army base for China’s growing corps of cyberwarriors.

The building off Datong Road, surrounded by restaurants, massage parlors and a wine importer, is the headquarters of P.L.A. Unit 61398. A growing body of digital forensic evidence — confirmed by American intelligence officials who say they have tapped into the activity of the army unit for years — leaves little doubt that an overwhelming percentage of the attacks on American corporations, organizations and government agencies originate in and around the white tower.

But the most troubling attack to date, security experts say, was a successful invasion of the Canadian arm of Telvent. The company, now owned by Schneider Electric, designs software that gives oil and gas pipeline companies and power grid operators remote access to valves, switches and security systems.

Telvent keeps detailed blueprints on more than half of all the oil and gas pipelines in North and South America, and has access to their systems. In September, Telvent Canada told customers that attackers had broken into its systems and taken project files. That access was immediately cut, so that the intruders could not take command of the systems.

[Xoshe]

Si China se decide a convertir en terrorismo cibernético su fuerza interior no será el pais que yo  creo que es porque será la mejor manera de dar bazas a los halcones usas que la quieren fulminar incluso a petardazos si hace falta.
Va mal la cosa. No es así. Pero claro, lo he dicho muchas veces. La guerra a los marcianos resolvería tantas cosas...nunca la he excluido. De hecho no la considero improbable.
Lo que no pensaba es que sería algo tan inminente.

[wanderer]

Si China se decide a convertir en terrorismo cibernético su fuerza interior no será el pais que yo  creo que es porque será la mejor manera de dar bazas a los halcones usas que la quieren fulminar incluso a petardazos si hace falta.
Va mal la cosa. No es así. Pero claro, lo he dicho muchas veces. La guerra a los marcianos resolvería tantas cosas...nunca la he excluido. De hecho no la considero improbable.
Lo que no pensaba es que sería algo tan inminente.

Pues el ínclito Krugman no para de repetir que una guerra contra los marcianos sería la salida (inflacionaria) ideal para ésta crisis.

Razón de más para llamarla estafa, por otra parte, por decir inmoralidad o cosas peores...

[Dan]

Si, los servicios secretos chinos son tontos del bote, por eso hacen ataques con el 'remite' en la direccion. 'Diablos estlanjelos, os vamos a delotal desde nuestla oficina centlal de Shanghai (la que esta encima de la peluquelia con final feliz)'

Es solo un poco menos burdo que las armas de destruccion masiva de Sadam.

Claro que si resulta ser verdad es que estan de cachondeito.

[Rui Brennan]

Si, los servicios secretos chinos son tontos del bote, por eso hacen ataques con el 'remite' en la direccion. 'Diablos estlanjelos, os vamos a delotal desde nuestla oficina centlal de Shanghai (la que esta encima de la peluquelia con final feliz)'

Es solo un poco menos burdo que las armas de destruccion masiva de Sadam.

Claro que si resulta ser verdad es que estan de cachondeito.

Justo ahora mismo estoy leyendo el informe, y es bueno. No, es MUY bueno. No es que los servicios secretos chinos sean tontos, es que si uno busca lo suficiente, siempre, siempre hay rastros de migas de pan. Y si no, que se lo digan a CdE  .

Os hago un resumen del metodo que han utilizado para descubrir el pastel:

• Localizamos el area de la que la mayoria de los ataques proceden. Vale, todos los "black hats" usan varios "saltos" (servidores hackeados) para que sea mas complicado rastrear los ataques hasta su origen real, pero esta unidad ha estado realizando ataques durante años, a multiples objetivos. Con el tiempo desarrollas un 'modus operandi' que hace que sea mas facil localizarte y, porque no, dejarte puertas traseras para que dejes mas rastros de los previstos. Al final no puedes saber exactamente donde, pero si puedes delimitar un "area".
  Comentar que tambien hay otros "rastros", aparte de los meramente "basados en red", que permiten no localizar el area del ataque, sino cerciorarse de que el 100% de la gente asociada a estos ataques procede de ese area.
• Una vez localizamos el area, descubrimos que es un suburbio con casas, casas, casas, la peluqueria de marras... y ostia, un complejo militar.
• Buscamos fuentes publicas (p.ej. contratistas) que nos den una pista de quien puede ser la unidad militar destinada en ese edificio. Resultado: una unidad en particular, la 61398.
• Ahora, buscamos informacion sobre esa unidad. Descubrimos que esta destinada a "Operaciones de red". Luego buscamos los perfiles de la gente que ha trabajado alli, e incluso - si estan disponibles, que lo estan - los requerimientos para trabajar en esa unidad. Conocimientos sobre Matematicas, Circuitos, Politica (?), Ingles (?)... hablando en plata, criptografia, seguridad, e ingenieria social.

Blanco y en botella. Ademas, lo del ataque a Telvent es bastante explicito. Los sistemas de control industrial son un puto queso de gruyere, y "cualquiera" con suficiente tiempo y recursos puede mandar una infraestructura critica (como... ¿el sistema electrico de Estados Unidos?) a tomar por culo. Rayos, si ya lo hicieron los de EEUU con el Stuxnet. Como decia Sun tzu, 'The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting'.

PD: El informe es este: http://intelreport.mandiant.com/Mandiant_APT1_Report.pdf

[Starkiller]

Si, los servicios secretos chinos son tontos del bote, por eso hacen ataques con el 'remite' en la direccion. 'Diablos estlanjelos, os vamos a delotal desde nuestla oficina centlal de Shanghai (la que esta encima de la peluquelia con final feliz)'

Es solo un poco menos burdo que las armas de destruccion masiva de Sadam.

Claro que si resulta ser verdad es que estan de cachondeito.

Deme un muestreo grande y variado, y es casi imposible no saber el área general de donde viene. Aunque solo sea por la latencia de las comunicaciones.

Eso, y que los bouncers también pueden ser "pinchados".

Para que eso no pase, cada ataque tiene que tener una topología completamente diferente, y eso no solo requiere de muchísimos recursos, sino que hay un número limitado.

Yo mas o menos, si me lo creo. Si el 90% de las cosas que dan por culo en la red son chinas o rusas...

[Xoshe]

Obama prepara ya la ley que le va a consentir a los USA lanzar ataques preventivos cibernéticos. Primer paso hacia la guerra marciana. A prepararse tocan. China me ha defraudado.
Vamos, sigo sin creer que puedan ser así de idiotas.

[Starkiller]

Obama prepara ya la ley que le va a consentir a los USA lanzar ataques preventivos cibernéticos. Primer paso hacia la guerra marciana. A prepararse tocan. China me ha defraudado.
Vamos, sigo sin creer que puedan ser así de idiotas.

China no son idiotas. Muy al contrario.

A ver, si USA quiere ir a la guerra contra alguien, va a ir a la guerra. Punto. Si hace falta, organiza un bombazo nuclear con "Ulanio"* en una de sus ciudades, y ya la tiene montada.

Y china lo sabe de sobra. Por lo tanto, todo lo que haga para prepararse, tiene sentido. Más teniendo en cuenta que el giro al pacífico no puede traer otra cosa, y que, entiendo, lleva siendo un futurible muy probable desde hace al menos un par de décadas.

Asique me parece una actitud sabia prepararse para lo que va a suceder, en lugar de intentar evitar lo inevitable y que encima te pillen en bragas.

Por otro lado, por mucho que sea cierto, lo de los ataques cibernéticos es en parte de cachondeo, y en parte, muy peligroso. En parte de cachondeo, porque en cualquier sociedad con dos dedos de frente, no deberían amenazar anda importante.

En parte, muy peligroso, porque efectivamente, las infraestructuras estan muy informatizadas, y son un queso grullere, porque como ya he comentado en hilo: siempre va a ser muchísimo más facil penetrar que securizar. si quieres un sistema seguro, desenchúfalo de la red. Punto.

En todo caso, vuelvo a lo mismo. Esto no va de lo que China haga o deje de hacer; va de que si USA quiere bronca, va a haber bronca.
__________
*Ul, isótopo de uranio fabricado y producido exclusivamente en china

[Dan]

Si no pongo en duda, ni mucho menos, que se pueda rastrear un ataque y realizar pesquisas, faltaría mas. De lo que dudo es que uno tan comprometido lo hayan hecho desde sus oficinas centrales en lugar diferirlo a cualquier parte del mundo donde un operativo pudiera hacerlo con mas seguridad.

O tienen un problema serio de método, han cometido negligencias, o no les importa gran cosa que les detecten. Que también podría ser a juzgar por el descaro con el que ya copian y piratean lo que se les antoja. En ese caso es el equivalente a lanzar unas salvas de advertencia, comparado con lo que podrían hacer.

Y otra cosa es que normalmente en espionaje cuando localizas la red del enemigo no lo publicas para que la cambien al día siguiente y tengas que volver a empezar, sino que la sometes a su vez a vigilancia y la suministras la desinformación que tu quieres, así acaba trabajando para ti sin saberlo.
Así que no se en realidad de que va todo esto. Igual si han sido tontos del bote, pero los dos a la vez.

[sudden and sharp]

Obama prepara ya la ley que le va a consentir a los USA lanzar ataques preventivos cibernéticos. Primer paso hacia la guerra marciana. A prepararse tocan. China me ha defraudado.
Vamos, sigo sin creer que puedan ser así de idiotas.

China no son idiotas. Muy al contrario.

A ver, si USA quiere ir a la guerra contra alguien, va a ir a la guerra. Punto. Si hace falta, organiza un bombazo nuclear con "Ulanio"* en una de sus ciudades, y ya la tiene montada.

Y china lo sabe de sobra. Por lo tanto, todo lo que haga para prepararse, tiene sentido. Más teniendo en cuenta que el giro al pacífico no puede traer otra cosa, y que, entiendo, lleva siendo un futurible muy probable desde hace al menos un par de décadas.

Asique me parece una actitud sabia prepararse para lo que va a suceder, en lugar de intentar evitar lo inevitable y que encima te pillen en bragas.

Por otro lado, por mucho que sea cierto, lo de los ataques cibernéticos es en parte de cachondeo, y en parte, muy peligroso. En parte de cachondeo, porque en cualquier sociedad con dos dedos de frente, no deberían amenazar anda importante.

En parte, muy peligroso, porque efectivamente, las infraestructuras estan muy informatizadas, y son un queso grullere, porque como ya he comentado en hilo: siempre va a ser muchísimo más facil penetrar que securizar. si quieres un sistema seguro, desenchúfalo de la red. Punto.

En todo caso, vuelvo a lo mismo. Esto no va de lo que China haga o deje de hacer; va de que si USA quiere bronca, va a haber bronca.
__________
*Ul, isótopo de uranio fabricado y producido exclusivamente en china

Muy bueno lo del "Ulanio".

[Rui Brennan]

Si no pongo en duda, ni mucho menos, que se pueda rastrear un ataque y realizar pesquisas, faltaría mas. De lo que dudo es que uno tan comprometido lo hayan hecho desde sus oficinas centrales en lugar diferirlo a cualquier parte del mundo donde un operativo pudiera hacerlo con mas seguridad.

Yo creo que, al ser una unidad militar, no ha tenido los mismos "requerimientos" de un servicio de inteligencia propiamente dicho. Además, esta gente ha estado soplando información a lo bruto, en plan maquinaria industrial, e imagino que eso es complicado hacerlo con un operativo mas apropiado. De paso, el APT1 tiene el número 1 - hay varias APT sueltas de las que no se ha soltado prenda, y alguna de ellas china.

O tienen un problema serio de método, han cometido negligencias, o no les importa gran cosa que les detecten. Que también podría ser a juzgar por el descaro con el que ya copian y piratean lo que se les antoja. En ese caso es el equivalente a lanzar unas salvas de advertencia, comparado con lo que podrían hacer.
Y otra cosa es que normalmente en espionaje cuando localizas la red del enemigo no lo publicas para que la cambien al día siguiente y tengas que volver a empezar, sino que la sometes a su vez a vigilancia y la suministras la desinformación que tu quieres, así acaba trabajando para ti sin saberlo.
Así que no se en realidad de que va todo esto. Igual si han sido tontos del bote, pero los dos a la vez.

La mayoría de los objetivos de APT1 no eran militares, sino civiles. Ahí es más complicado crear un sistema de desinformación. Eso no implica que sacar ahora esto a la luz sea a) un puñetazo en la mesa porque chicos, os estais pasando ya con tanto chupar secretos a mansalva, b) ahora nos conviene montar un cisne negro (y que os tragueis la desinformación que os hemos estado medicando en nuestros sistemas militares), asi que toca airear las vergüenzas, c) todo lo anterior.

Con respecto al descaro de los chinos, hay que tener en cuenta que la cupula del partido comunista chino (y el resto, vamos...) es extremadamente corrupta. Si podían usar esa estructura para sus "negocietes", pues se usaba, seguro. Aparte, como menciona Starkiller, si la cúpula tiene claro que una confrontación con EEUU es casi inevitable (o que el riesgo de ser descubiertos no pasa de una pataleta en la ONU y un par de medidas chorras), entonces les daba un poco igual que los pillasen o no.

[Xoshe]

En cualquier caso si se confirma que en el arsenal militar usa va a figurar el ataque preventivo cibernético ya podemos irnos preparando. Otro Sadamazo en ciernes.